Guest
I see Gummy got you out of bed then! (or should I say Fulham/Investor.

Lingfield 3:15

Dubaian Gift to beat Roses of Spring or is 9-10 too much to carry?

Beat Connect and Eastern Trumpeter lto with (I think) an improved performance upped in class. Now dropped in class (with marked card?)


Only other dropped in class Greenwood, also dropped in distance, but surely 9-11 is too much to carry.

Roses of Spring obviously in form, but not up to this class.

Other consistent horse is Byo, but not up to this class

Dubaian Gift at 5/1 looks tempting.

Guest
Have you gone back to bed now?

arowson
You are a breath of fresh air .
I shall have a look at that race nd give you my opinion
Cheers
Swish

DUBAIAN GIFT looks good, I agree, on speed and OR, but it has a bad draw. (5)
Generally its high draw that win this race.
I would go for ROSES OF SPRING
Cheers
Swish
p.s VDW people aren't interested in the draw, much to their detrement

We had joy we had fun, we had VDW'ers on the run, but the joy did'nt last cos the ******* ran too fast! (Or went to bed)
All the best to every one
Night Night
Swish

Chaz

My purpose was not do defend any particular post made by Investor, still less anything as grandiose as JIB suggests. It was merely to say that I thought your comment an unnecessarily harsh (and indeed inaccurate) one on a regular contributor who is plainly trying to get to grips with something no one I've ever met has found easy.

Neither do I think it at all relevant for others (not your good self) to point up posters' relative skills at writing. The only requirement in a forum such as this is the ability to make oneself reasonably clearly understood. That several regular contributors frequently make errors of construction, spelling and punctuation in no way diminishes the value of their input.

Fulham,

Could I e mail with regards the newspaper Library.

I did telephone the no` you provided and obtained the opening hours from the message but I couldn`t make personal contact.

You maybe able to advise me on the set up, etc.

ALL

Today`s racing is on the whole very mediocre but the Dubian Gift race and in particular that horse does interest me.

I note a couple of posters have put this one up as a probable.

More comments from all those seriously interested would be welcome

3.15 Lingfield

i also think Dubaian Gift for this one.

Swish, the draw for sprints at Lingfield, i thought it was only soft ground that needed a high draw but i may be wrong

do you have any stats ?

Arowson,

Had a quick look and in my opinion Dubian Gift does have alot of plus points numerically.

Well placed on ability ratings and in the f/c.

Her style of running will suit this course.

The draw would normally be a worry but in her case given her style of running I do not think it will inconvenience her.

Her form last year was progressive and I believe her 2 runs this season may have been needed.

A drop in class today and yes her price looks generous however 2 factors do concern me, ie - the stable have only produced 2 winners from there last 49 runners and the weight of 9-10 ???

In my opinion ( NOVICE ) given that she is unproven with this weight in this class is there a question of her in formness for this race ????

I know Mtoto will pull his hair out on the weight isssue.

Thinking about it, provided the ground stays good or better should weight really effect a horse when running over only 5 furlongs on a fast track ????

Summary at this early stage - going, course, class, speed figures in comparison to the opposition she is the probable winner. With regards the weight, the available price of 5/1 allows for that factor but are the stable in form ???

Cheers,

Andrew,

I did have some stats but they have gone.

I can talk from past experience, ie - I have had some success down the years backing high drawn horses over the sprint course at Lingfield.

I do not think the draw will beat DG today.

It is the weight issue and the stable`s in fomness that concern me slightly,

Cheers,

Determined

Yes, of course, but I'll put up a few details here as they may be relevant to others. Email me if there is anything else you need to know.

1. The Library is situated about 100 yards from Colindale tube station, on the Northern Line (opposite side of the road, and to the right of the station as one leaves it).

2. There is limited free parking at the Library. I've always found a space when I've arrived at the Library opening time (10.00am), but have occasionally failed when arriving later. There is a pay car park in the grounds of the Hospital opposite the Library where I've always and easily found a space when I've failed at the Library itself.

3. On arrival for the first time, you need to obtain a reader's ticket. For that you will need to produce evidence of your residence - driving licence, passport etc. The ticket is free, valid for one year, and takes about five minutes to obtain.

4. One can advance order, by 'phone or email, up to four items 48 hours before a visit. This means the items will be waiting when you arrive and saves half an hour or more of waiting time if you only order when you arrive. (I've only advance ordered by 'phone. It is the same number as the one with the opening times etc message. You simply have to wait for the recorded message to finish and then you are in principle, though not always in practice, automatically put through to one of the counter staff.)

5. For the period we are interested in VDW-wise, the relevant material, including the Life and Post, is nearly all on microfilm. These typically cover a month, though some only half a month, so when advance ordering you need to specify dates exactly. As stated earlier, you can advance order up to four, and when you return the first you can order another which, hopefully, will be ready for you when you've gone through the other advance ordered material;

6. Exceptions are the Sporting Chronicle and Racing Calendar, which are in bound volume form.

7. With the micro-filmed material, you have the option of making notes using a micro-film reader, or making copies of the pages you want on the self-use microfilm copier (reasonably understandable details of how to use both types of machine are pinned on the wall next to the machines, and the assistants are very helpful when one runs into a difficulty). To make a copy you need to buy from the reception desk a smartcard, and these are available at varying costs. I usually buy either a 10 unit card (£7) or 20 (£14): bear in mind that, although you can take an undischarged card home for use on a subsequent occasion, you can't get a refund.

8. If one wants the card and form for a race, it typically involves two or three, and occasionally four photocopies, as the cards anf form are almost always on separate pages, the form is often spread over two pages, and if it covers a full column you can't get the whole of the column on one photocopy! So budget on £2.10 to photocopy the details of the average race. It's not cheap.

9. It is even more expensive if you want to copy something from a bound volume - the Chronicle, say. You can't do that yourself: you complete an order form and the copies are posted on, how quickly depending on the fee level you choose. Personally, on the rare occasions I've wanted material from the Chronicle or Calendar, I've taken notes. The cost of copies is something like £2.50 a page.

10. I have never had a problem finding a desk or seat at a micro-film reader. But there are only two micro-film copying machines, and I've occasionally had to wait for one to become vacant: especially when one of the machines has broken down.

11. With, say, an hour's experience, you should be able to photocopy the card and form for one race in less than ten minutes (including loading the film and finding the right Life).

Fulham,

You are a true gentleman. I think you`ve covered all the points I was going to raise.

It was my intention to make copious notes on the day I intend to visit. I`m initially interested in the ability ratings of all the runners in the various VDW eg`s and any foreign form not shown in the annuals.

I intend to spend a full day there so I should hopefully be able to obtain plenty of the necessary info` Given that I haven`t got the 82/83 Chaseform annual ( Desert Hero ) I think I`ll pre order the relevant films for that period.

Thanks again,



Chester Cup,

I would be very interested in your thoughts on this race if at all possible.

Determined

There is no doubt in my mind that Hug's Dancer was the clear c/f for the race, with no concerns about capability (and I think Johnd was in error to suggest he preferred shorter, having won twice over markedly further).

Only a complete idiot like me, trying to be cleverer than VDW, would have failed to have backed it! Fortunately my friends had more sense, and a splendid result on the day.

Fulham,

Thanks again for your quick response.

Not wanting to rub salt in the wounds but I am very surprised you didn`t play but to quote yourself there will be plenty more winners just around the corner.

With regards HD and distance. In my opinion the stable are targetting the wrong race at Ascot, ie - forget the Gold Cup and take the easier 2m 6f Alexandra Staks.

Cheers,

Determined

Yes, a real missed opportunity and I feel appropriately abashed.

Worse still, it was a Pricewise selection and, irrespective of anything VDW-wise, I systematically arb. those. But I was out from about 10.30am on Wednesday, and knew I would have to leave the "lay off" on Betfair unattended, and therefore with the possibility that I'd been too greedy and found no takers, and be stuck with a bet I didn't really want, so I didn't even do my usual arbing.

There is, however, something of a silver lining. I was out because my wife and I had been invited to lunch by my only surviving uncle, who is wealthy by (almost) any standard. Quite apart from the excellent lunch at a splendid fish restaurant in Carshalton, one of his purposes in inviting us was to enlist my help in buying him a horse! (Unfortunately his wife of sixty years standing died earlier this year, and he is casting around for new interests, and sees owning a horse or several, and going to the meetings with his pals, as one.)

The upshot is that we are going down to the West Country for a few days during Whit week, to take in Newton Abbot on 29 May and hopefully talk to Paul Nicholls and one or two other trainers, though as my uncle lives only three miles from Epsom, I suspect he'll probably start with a Flat horse to be trained locally and run primarily there.

Another contributor to the thread to whom I've already told this said he anticipates the day when, my uncle having collected a trophy for a televised race, as his "racing manager" I'm interviewed by Tommo, and respond: "well, Tommo, I thought we were in with a good chance. It was after all the clear class/form horse, proven under the conditions". Maybe if my uncle buys an unnamed two year old I can even persuade him to call it VDW!

Anyway, as you can tell the fantasies are already running well ahead of reality. My uncle may well change his mind. Still, what would life be without an element of fantasy.

Fulham, Determined,

Theres an alternative to the Newspaper library. A firm called Historic Newspapers sell copies of the Sporting Life and Racing Post. You may be lucky and get those you need. The last lot I bought were for Rivage Bleu etc. at a cost of £3 per newspaper.Telephone number is 0800 906609. Hope this helps.

Interesting point re the target for Hugs Dancer at Royal Ascot. He certainly has a better chance of winning the lesser race, but money can make people do strange things. A point those who say a place in valuable races is always better than a win in somewhat lesser class seem to miss. VDW touched upon this sort of factor when pointing out that 2nd place money was worth a lot more than winning Wayward Lads other engagement that day at Haydock.

Fulham - It is surprising that John D suggested Hugs Dancer needed shorter given the facts in the form. But John is still using traditional methods of form appraisal. The horse has won over further in decent class - fact.

Fulham
I may be the laughing stock of the board,But that doesn't stop anybody from giving an opinion.The numerical picture (first) looked very good in favour of hugs dancer,But that's where it stopped for me.As for a vdw selection i feel this horse would have been left to run.