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Member
Posted
I will answer your questions, and trust you will answer mine in return.
1) Why do I think anything underhanded has happened?

Your private forum, long dormant, suddenly burgeoned from 4/5 members to 28 in a short space of time. It stretches credibilty to breaking point to suppose that suddenly all these members became fed up with the abuse in this short period. The abuse had been about long before then, not a little of it from these suddenly upset members. The only rational conclusion is there was some orchestration.


Fulham, in a reply to either JIB or Epi some 3/4 months ago, openly boasted that the abuse problem would be shortly dealt with, and followed that up later gloating that it had been fixed. He also, at this time, showed an unusual interest in the email addresses of some members which weren't on their profiles, so obviously, were not part of his regular contacts. Now, he is either psychic, or he was involved in this manipulation of the membership from this forum to that.


Fulham, as is his devious way, began to use this forum as an advertising medium for the private forum, first covertly, then overtly, culminating in an almost open invitation for a new member to join your forum. This may have escaped your attention, it certainly didn't mine, and, if pressed, I will point out the posts.


It is also known that your private forum has amongst its membership two of the very worst abusers ever to appear on this thread.
It is not a coincidence that they happen to be followers of the Guest method. Conclusion, it is not really the abuse that bothers you, rather their approach to VDW


So there you have it, orchestration, manipulation, enticement, and selectivity, most of it done by email, and certainly not done in the open and above board manner that one would expect of a well meaning and ethical exercise.
There is so much more I could add, but time forbids. I will answer your other questions over the next couple of days, please bear with me, as I have no intention of discussing the above until you have my complete answer

Johnd.

[This message was edited by johnd on September 11, 2003 at 06:45 PM.]
 
Posts: 1512 | Registered: August 20, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
The Vital Spark
Member
Picture of john in brasil
Posted
    Pte Frazer
    Moaningtoto,
    I only asked what I asked as I thought it provided you with an opportunity to lighten up.
    You ask why I call you a moaner when all you have done for the last couple of months is post complaints about fellow members and foretell the end of this forum.
    You claim to be dedicated to this forum but demand a series of expulsions as the price of your staying put. When there is no sign of this happening you make vague threats and accusations. Surely you must realise that you are not going to get your way this time? Do you really think that the members of this forum are going to give in to the tactics of a spoilt child?
    Whatever is your unhappiness please dont inflict it on others or you will never be popular.
 
Posts: 4717 | Registered: February 10, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
The Vital Spark
Member
Picture of john in brasil
Posted
    Pot of Gold
    Guest,
    Do you know who, or even how many, were the members when you were in your golden period?
    Do you remember how foolish Del Burgess made himself look with the secret of his '5/4' system? And it would be even worse for yourselves because at least the '5/4' is both profitable and easy to follow.
    Do you yourself not state that only a tiny minority are interested in vdw anyway (though surely if it was profitable the queue would be going round the block!)?
    Would you not be grateful for any new recruits whatever their origin? At least we ve never seen you turning the suitably dumb ones away.
    Or is it just the depressing atmosphere of your new forum that has got you all wanting to outdo each other in complaining?
 
Posts: 4717 | Registered: February 10, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
The Vital Spark
Member
Picture of john in brasil
Posted
    Cooked Goose
    Jd,
    Plenty of meat in that last one. Keep them coming, I would like to know more.
 
Posts: 4717 | Registered: February 10, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Growler
Member
Picture of three legs
Posted
Moano no mates Big Grin
 
Posts: 4123 | Registered: October 11, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Jolly Swagman
Member
Picture of Tuppenycat
Posted
The "swamp" may well have been "Drained" - But - "unpleasent aroma's" - still linger !!

tc

Razz
 
Posts: 2359 | Registered: June 17, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
The Hustler
Member
Picture of Swish
Posted
Jimmy,
I regret I can't read the paper from the link you give as one of my files is out of date.

Mtoto
Of course I rarely pick a 20-1 winner.
My point was it seems easier to me to find classier horses in low class races than in high class races. Too many Duck's in't hedge.

Fulham
Thanks for a decent and proper answer.

Guest
Now let's have a look at what tou said:
MAD (SHOULDN'T THAT BE "DAFT"?) AS A BRUSH
Ok I go along with that.

Not as good as picking winners as I think I am etc,
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, although I have improved dramatically recently.........honest.

Boring
NEVER, annoying may be.

Judging people from their writings
Well I am no expert but I ain't bad for a novice.

LOL Wink
Swish
 
Posts: 3071 | Registered: September 27, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Posted
Puppet Master, & puppet of course.

I suppose this is another case of the truth as you see it. When have I asked for anyone to be barred from the board? Unlike the puppet, I said I didn't want to remain on the board with idiot's like you. I have said when Gummy says what is going to happen to the thread I will leave. Simple as that.

What threats have I made? Stated a few facts as I see them, don't think they are vague. Mentioned that more than a few of the old names no longer appear in the gallery. That the gallery isn't as big as it used to be. What's vague about that, pretty easy to understand I would have thought?

At the moment my only unhappiness is what is happening to this forum. It was my life line when I was ill and it makes me sad, and angry to see what has happened to it. Telling me to lighten up about it is a bit like saying to you, someone has kicked over your beehives, not to worry.

I will not be pushed out by you. I will leave if Gummy asks me too, but until then I will continue to answer your lies and innuendoes. Have to admit it would be a lot more fun face to face.
 
Posts: 1133 | Registered: October 22, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
The Vital Spark
Member
Picture of john in brasil
Posted
    Origami blackbelt
    Moaningtoto,
    If you need my address to complete your violent desire I will send it to you. The authorities are v lenient about this sort of thing over here. Thankfully funding should be no problem for you.
    I didnt think you were so childish, but I am calling your bluff, you like to say to people you dislike that you want to sort things out face to face, so now you have your chance. And you can rest assured that I will guarantee you are unmolested by the powers that be.
    But you wont do it, will you Moaningtoto? I'll never see you here because you havent the guts. The only thing you have in excess is piss and wind, and the ability to make worthless promises. You're a hero behind your keyboard where you preach the superior attitudes you cannot achieve away from it.
    You re a clown Moaningtoto, please dont leave the board, stay around to give us a laugh.
 
Posts: 4717 | Registered: February 10, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Posted
Once again you jump to conclusions. The reason I would like to meet you face to face is so you would have to answer questions immediately. Thinking on your feet without having hours to think up smart replies. I think that is something you are not capable off and why you are always hiding behind the half truths and innuendoes. You have never offered me violence, or a physical challenge unlike your puppet. Why do you think I would offer you one?

Perhaps it's you that should grow up
 
Posts: 1133 | Registered: October 22, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
The Vital Spark
Member
Picture of john in brasil
Posted
    Dolls house
    Why do I have to give immediate answers? What is wrong with the ones I already provide? I'm not terribly quick at typing, (I only use my right index-finger) but I had thought my replies were pretty smartly returned.
    I have never even in my most verbose mode taken hours to provide a reply once I have seen the post I am replying to. The timing device at the top of each contribution should bear ample witness to that claim.
    As your contributions are certainly no quicker in appearing than my own what makes you so sure you would be capable of framing 'immediate' questions?
 
Posts: 4717 | Registered: February 10, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Picture of Jimmy
Posted
Mtoto, (meaning child in Swahili), is certainly living up to his name. That’s at least three times he has blamed Gummy for the demise of this thread , in that he keeps telling us that Gummy lost control. I would beg to differ. I maintain that Gummy has always had total control, as he should do. He decides who posts or who does not. What the child really means is that the thread has not been controlled the way he (Mtoto) likes. A far cry from Gummy losing control.

Throughout history there have been fringe groups with strange ideas, if they managed to convince enough people they were right they moved from the fringe to the mainstream. And, if they ever became powerful enough, they tried to control any dissenting voices by isolating and then silencing the critics. This is exactly what the VDW proponents on here would have liked to have done.

Any criticism? Don’t air it on this thread.
You see someone telling a pack of lies? Keep silent, don’t dare mention it on this thread.
And so it goes on.

At one time the majority of people, that thought about it, thought the world was flat. The fringe thought it was round. When finally it was shown that the fringe was right and the world was round they moved to the mainstream and now it is the fringe flat earth society that is laughed at. At the moment the majority of people think VDW is bollocks and the fringe keep telling us it is brilliant. Well no one is asking them to sail round the world under sail. All they have to do to convince us is put up selections over a reasonable period of time that show a worthwhile profit. If they do this then JIB, 111 and myself will be marginalised, and the majority can laugh at and abuse us all they want. But until that happens they cannot expect us to keep silent.

As to what to do with this thread? I’ve said all along, the best place for it is the bin.
 
Posts: 1335 | Registered: September 28, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
The Vital Spark
Member
Picture of john in brasil
Posted
    Magnificent post!
 
Posts: 4717 | Registered: February 10, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Posted
Question 2)
If this thread was revived, would I still demand people post up before the race?
Two questions really, so I will deal with them separately.


There is little or no chance of this thread being revived under the current circumstances. As my previous answer made clear, your private forum is using this thread as a recruiting ground, and it not in the interest of members who have stayed loyal to Gummy to nurture new members for them to be spirited away by yourselves.
From a personal point of view, as a fairly estabished member of this thread, can you honestly believe that I would post up any new or innovative thinking I had, so that it may be taken away, and discussed in private by your thread, thus creating a one way flow of information, from an open forum to a closed one. In all truth, would you, because that is the situation we have at the moment?
This thread was built on the sharing of information amongst all members, and until that position is restored by Gummy kicking out the usurpers, that will never be the case again.
There is, of course, the alternative of the private thread being abandoned, but given the recent history of some of its members, they are unlikely to be trusted for a very long time.

As for posting selections before the race, I would ask you to ponder two points.

Firstly, the vast majority of the abuse on this thread is directed towards those who claim to have picked the winner after the race, from the most sophisticated to the outright looney.
Ask yourself one question. Why do they do it after the race if they are not prepared to do it before? There really is only one answer.
Nobody expects anyone to divulge all their selections, nevertheless credibility needs to be established before one can be expected to be taken seriously.

Secondly, of the frequent posters on this thread, how many have steadfastly refused to give the occasional selection before the race. Certainly not me, you, Guest, Determined, Barney, Investor, JIB, Epi, or many others.
There is, in fact, only one; the most prolific poster on this thread, ( In words,not posts), The one who seeks the aura of a Guru, yet, on the most wafer thin of pretexts, will not expose himself to the test that other members regularly undertake.
Think carefully of the real reason behind his reticence, and you will have the answer to why there is so much abuse.
 
Posts: 1512 | Registered: August 20, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Picture of Jimmy
Posted
Can't find fault with that.
 
Posts: 1335 | Registered: September 28, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Posted
Question 3
How would I deal with the hecklers?

Begin by listening to what they say, and try to answer their criticisms.
Not the answer that you and others are looking for, nor the path you have taken, but the only real way to answer their criticisms is to prove them wrong.
At the very least, the effort may get some of them on your side, and despite all the invective, the truth is there are some very agile brains amongst them
The alternative is to close your eyes and hope they will go away, but that will never work.

I have given, and received, my fair share of abuse on this thread, but the only time I have had recourse to the yellow triangle was when Barney posted up his website address with the purpose of breaking up this thread. Far more important to me than any number of insults.



I have now answered your questions as honestly and comprehensively as possible, and in the direct manner in which they were phrased. Do with them what you will, but I would reasonably expect you to reciprocate when the time comes

Johnd
 
Posts: 1512 | Registered: August 20, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
The Vital Spark
Member
Picture of john in brasil
Posted
    In terms of quality we've just hit the motherlode!
 
Posts: 4717 | Registered: February 10, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
<Fulham>
Posted
Johnd

"Steadfastly refused". I like that. It's spot on. No doubt to you it's a synonym for unwarranted obduracy, but to me it connotes consistency and a willingness (and capacity) to take the flak that comes from maintaining a principled position.

If you care to go back to one of my first ever posts, in reply to Pazuzu (or something very similar - the guy who was expelled, then allowed to rejoin, and then flounced off), you'll see my reasoning, later re-stated more fully to Gummy on one of the shorter VDW threads.

Getting anywhere near that 80+% figure yet? I'm still well short, but remain optimistic.

[This message was edited by Fulham on September 12, 2003 at 07:22 AM.]
 
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Growler
Member
Picture of three legs
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mtoto:
You have never offered me violence, or a physical challenge unlike your puppet. Why do you think I would offer you one?

Perhaps it's you that should grow up


The above quote was directed at JiB (as if anyone didn`t know)

Moano

I`m quite prepared to issue a board apology if what you claim is correct. But to the best of my recollection I have never threatened you with violence nor issued you a physical challenge. Perhaps you`re confused with the violence offered toward me by one of your morgue colleagues (2 cells)

Moano, you are looking a sorry sight on this thread, you are beleaguered, alone and now wildly lashing out in the corner you`ve trapped yourself in, biting like a scared rat at anything that moves.

Are you man enough to issue an unqualified apology for lying ?
 
Posts: 4123 | Registered: October 11, 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Posted
BOOZER.
in "Racing in my System" by Tony Stafford, VDW comments at the end of his Roushayd evaluation are as follows. "There is of course the last segment to the formula...HARD WORK...it has to be done, but few are prepared to do it. The method works year-in year-out, over both rules & at all levels."
No you weren't dreaming.

GUEST, FULHAM,DETERMINED,BARNEY,NESSIE,STATAJACK & everyone else too numerous to mention who have made positive contributions to the VDW thread. A heartfelt thanks for all the help and assistance you have generously offered to anyone who wished to delve deeper into the VDW methodology. I for one will be sad to see you all go but I understand why. Good Luck for the future.
Regards Bumper.
 
Posts: 97 | Registered: February 18, 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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