Elementary my dear Swish,

I don't KNOW that he is Alan Bacon, but if you remember he was rabbiting on about his work with the health board or something like that at one time then if you check out the thread
/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=800602078&f=491603159&m=7536073473
and look at the papers presented and in particular the paper presented by Alan Bacon you can see the connection. A tenuous connection I must admit but added to AlanB's posts on RSUK it looks promising.
Now where's my pipe?

Swish,

Have you stopped and thought MAYBE Fulham has found his answers by reading this thread. That, and a lot of hard work with the old form books.

Re the low class races, yes a 20/1 winner is nice. How often do you find them, not often? Why because low class races have low class horses. Low class horses don't run to form as often as good class horses, if they did they wouldn't be low class.

If you look back at those horses I posted right at the beginning they are all good class races. So nothing has changed for me in that department, I have always looked for good horses.

I'm only back on here because of the downright lies and snide remarks. If everyone just walks away the idiots win and if there is no replies to the lies they just may be believed. Although if Gummy does post the thread on the open forum he will have to clean it up. Otherwise people may make up their own minds about who caused the thread to die. I also think it is completely unethical to publish posting that were written on a members only thread. How would Gummy feel if someone else published ANYTHING from this forum?

When the fate of the thread is decided I will leave. I don't want anything to do with a forum that allows this nonsense. I certainly don't want to associate with people that can only have FUN by taking the piss. Poor sad bastards (terminology used so the idiot puppet can understand it) This was a good forum but now it is loosing it's edge. There are other forums that are better for discussions on racing, there are other forums with better system threads. As I'm not interested in systems there are only 3 threads for me to look at. One of those the contributor has only just returned. It may be harsh but it is a fact, I can remember looking at the gallery and seeing 30+. Think I looked on Saturday and there was a 3rd of that figure. Many of the good names haven't appeared for weeks if not months.

Before anyone asks why I still log in. When I was in hospital my son did something that logged into this forum automatically. So my wife could find it straight away, to print off the postings to bring to me. I don't know how to change it and my son is in Dublin until the end of the year.

If you want a real laugh, look up Alan B's piece on Irony on the other thread, and the limp excuse for missing it. Expert punter indeed!

MTOTO
Believe it or not, I have no real quarrel with you apart from the underhanded way in which your group has undermined this thread.
I will however say, and with the utmost sincerity, that your difficulty is your naive innocence in understanding who the real liars are.

Swish

VDW, for me, is a matter of profitability. Although I find interest in trying to uncover the whole VDW "story", by far the most important consideration is profitability. Thus if I came across an approach that I was able to apply with significantly greater success than I do my understanding of VDW's, of course I would switch.

Re Lower class races

VDW Said the method I gave works under both codes and at ALL LEVELS

Wish I could find the quote but I cant
But I have read it I am certain

He also said it is better to stick to the higher class race untill a better understanding............

Again I cant find the quote
Could have dreamnt it I suppose

That's probably the most interesting post I've seen on this thread in the last 21 months.

Mtoto has made the most important point of all in that for Gummy to threaten to transfer material posted by members on a private forum onto a public one is a betrayal of trust. What others think of the material is irrelevant. It was posted in good faith by those who were on the understanding that they were in a private forum. The fact is, wether others like it or not, that the VDW section was the most popular area of the board in terms of activity. Just because some who posted there have decided to discuss VDW elsewhere unhindered by bored, pathetic arseholes who get their kicks by causing disruption on racing forums, there is no reason for anyone to break peoples trust. In the overall scheme of things there will only ever be a tiny minority of people interested in VDW compared to the thousands of people who bet on horse racing, why others can't just accept this and leave be is beyond me.

So, whilst I haven't visited this site until this week for some time now there are a few further views I would like to express. Firstly, just a few comments on certain members.

Swish - You are without doubt as mad as a brush, and I aren't telling lies 'cos I know this to be true. You're like the old boys from the local bookies who tell you about their 25/1 winners they backed in their youth. A total bore and nowhere near as good at picking winners as you say otherwise you would be living in better style. You are also a terrible judge of the written word and seem unable to recognise people from how they write their posts.

JohnD - You talk of the threads former glory days, yet if you take out the posts from those who have left (whom you seem to want executed for their crimes) there would be little left. Little,except you telling everyone they are wrong and offering no alternative, Epi going quite literally insane before our very eyes, 3 Legs and Jimmy tittering in the corner and Swish getting hot under the collar over nothing. Could it be that now you and the hecklers have destroyed the VDW thread, and any objective jury would see that was the case, that you are now quite curious as to what is being discussed in a civilised manner on the new private VDW thread? I dare you to take all the posts from those you decry on this thread and delete their posts from it. You will be left with little worth knowing about VDWs methods I can promise you that.

Johnd,

Ok, a couple of serious questions.

How, and why, do you think anything underhanded has happened. If you answer this please don't say things like it is obvious, explain your answer. Most of the members of the other forum were in contact with each other before they joined Gummy, that is an important point that should be taken into consideration. The other thing NO ONE has been told not to use the Gummy board. If they have stopped it must be asked why?

If the thread was revived, would you still demand people posted up before the race? To do this you would lose a few of the best people, as no one likes to be dictated to. How and why would this benefit the thread, if horses fits the VDW profile they will do that before, or after the race. They can still be discussed and thought about isn't that the important bit. I have on more than one occasion ask why a horse has not been mentioned. How would you deal with the hecklers? There would most certainly be those that don't agree, or have nothing better to do with their time. They would love it when two or more people come up with different horses in the same race. If you complained to the moderator you are two faced miserable scum. If you try to reply to them it ruins the thread. Rock and a hard place come to mind. A few pointers on how to deal with this could really help.

Boozer,

Good to hear from you, it's been a long time.

I am sure you are correct that VDW said the method worked at any level. I am also sure he said stick to the better races, IF there was a choice. He said take the 2 most valuable races at the principle meeting and the best race from the other meetings. He also said you don't find good horses running for poor money. Think he mentioned £3000, and that was back in 78, what guide would he be using now. Yes, it can work in poor races, but it is better to use reliable horses. Wouldn't you agree?

Hope you are still being lucky

Guest,

Thanks for the mention

Guest,

Firstly it is important to try and form ones opinion based on historical fact.

At its inception, this forum was open for anyone to visit. If they wanted to post they didnt even have to join. As far as I am aware, and G. can correct me if necessary, no one was refused membership. The only bannings involved tipsters who blatantly abused the board and our patience.

If I am not mistaken you are the same Guest who contributed on innumerous occasions in the condition of a guest.

This serves to remind us that this forum never started with the intention of being a medium for vdw discussion. It existed for nearly a year before Swish (not anyone of you who now seem to think it is your property) decided to start a thread on the subject.

When the forum became more restricted the thread continued irrespective of existing or new members thoughts, if any, on vdw. The forum became restricted as a whole and never solely because of the priceless info on the vdw thread.

The vdw thread is what it is because of all its contributions, each side will have differing opinions as to the most valuable, and one cannot determine its form if such and such were deleted. This being so it is v wrong (and somewhat impertinant) for you and your supporters to demand what is to be done with it when it is yourselves who now no longer wish to use it.

At no time was your participation conditioned as to the readership, content or future of the thread. To be honest I think you were all delighted to be so lucky as to find such a big audience for your pretensions.

This thread, indeed all the forum (remember this when you eventually fall out with Barney) belongs to Gummy. He has asked our opinion as to the threads fate because hes a good stick, but hes under no obligation, legal or moral, to acquiesce to any persuasion.

[This message was edited by john in brasil on September 11, 2003 at 02:59 PM.]

Excellent post JiB, and if nothing else, Guest ought to learn from it not to take seriously anything Moano says.

I`m bloody sure I don`t

Cant you grasp that to post up selections on a public board you will only be taken seriously if you have authority?

To my mind a public board is one that can be read by any passing surfer. This is not a public board as you have to register to read these threads **********************
Why did you start the other 'closed forum' if it was not to confine your postdated selections to a wholly accepting membership.

To keep arseholes like you out, plain and simple.
*******************
Are we to assume that you want to return here because you think you are doing us a favour? You seem to think that this forum is the poorer for your withdrawal, can you point out the posts where the membership so laments?

Can't you read? I will never come back while the likes of you and your puppet are here. I won't be forced out by the likes of you, I will go when I'M READY. I didn't say my leaving was detrimental to the forum I said you being here is. I can show you posts asking for thread to be used for the topic stated. I can show you posts asking for the tone and language to stop these posts are from Gummy
**********************
Is it not true that your claims as to the welfare of this forum are dishonest? Is it not really your desire to see the end of this forum as a fitting punishment for demonstrating a lack of enthusiasm for your own ideas?

Complete and utter bollocks I want the forum to thrive, I can't see how it can if idiots like you are allowed to ruin anything YOU don't want.
*********************
At your stage of life dont you feel that your condition of taking part only if you are in charge can only originate after a lifetime of consecutive snubs and your inability to understand why you are always on the recieving end of them?

If the worst thing that can happen is a snub from a prick like you I will be more than happy. I am more than happy with the friends I have, and it will disappoint you to know I don't feel I have ever be snubbed by anyone that matters.
*************************
In response to the first paragraph to Guest

I seem to remember a posting from Gummy saying ALL new members would have to register with names and telephone numbers that was only a few weeks after I joined. Something to do with the site becoming to popular and not wanting to spoil it by having people with no interest spoiling it for others Very perceptive pity it didn't work

Both, arsehole when you spout rubbish, prick if you think you are important in my life, and I worry or even care what you think.

Can't you think of anything else to ask? Or maybe you could explain why you think anyone that disagrees with you is a moaner.

JIB - Yes I did contribute when it was open under the name of Guest, but I only posted info I was happy for all to read. When it became a private thread I posted things I wouldn't have on a public forum because, fool that I am, I was under the impression that private mean't private. Obviously you have some other meaning to the term?

Anyway, I'm not going to be drawn into further discussion. I don't post anything VDW wise here anymore and I won't in the future because twats with no real interest in VDW have ruined the thread in my opinion. I only posted my thoughts earlier because I read the post about making the thread public. That is fair enough, but to make old posts from members who posted them public is wrong. I couldn't give a monkeys toss what you all do after besides that.

I think we can safely say Moano has definately gone off you Jib, but you`ve got some catching up to do to be in my league. I hold the record for getting further up his nose than anyone else in the whole wide world