Jib
I can't umderstand why she (H Knight) ran him in that ground.She moddy coddles the bloody horse then let's him loose in a bog.I have got to have a good look at this,But judging by what kicking King did to Beef or Salmon and vice versa.K.K has just proven he can do the business at 3 mile in good company and would have won convincingly had it not been for the blip at the last.So it's all a bit up in the air at the minute,A lot of work to do.It will be a good gold cup this year.

I don't think it is the end of story, Investor.

Regretably your answer didn't convince me.

I'm starting to think that we are victims of the " never ending saga" based on something like " Dick Barton- special agent" and the Archers.

Just when we want to know what's happening, the music starts and we're advised to tune in again tomorrow.
I suppose Investor, as an ex door-to-door salesman, is well aware of the benefit of the "Hook" in selling.

It seems more and more likely to me that the original idea of taking some American methods and using them to generate interest in the letters page helped boost sales of the paper which was probably the aim all along.

Now I'm beginning to think that its use is to try sell old formbooks, " missing keys/links" in traditional "get rich quick with my new information" blurb.

What a let-down.

Btw, I hope nobody thought Best Mate was trying to win in Ireland today.
This is a great example of why " book form" alone can be so misleading. Trainer intent is so important.

As for the Welsh Nat winner, he was well tipped on btob, a board where I believe "raceman" came in for a lot of grief a good while ago.
I hadn't twigged any VDW link before, so maybe there are several "racemen" and several "investors" doing the rounds.

Boozer
A lot of vdw's approach is hidden,You just have to look that little bit harder.Childish and stupid,Yes i agree.But i enjoyed it especially with Ectoo spouting off,Made my day.

lol Boozer

Did'nt look at Best mates race today but cant see him being fully fit till Cheltenham

Youre right sean but there is some logic in the VDW stuff albeit half of it pinched by the looks of it from elswhere

Seanrua
I'm sorry you feel that way mate,But ever since i started researching these methods.Frustration through lack of understanding has followed the methods about.From board to board and thread to thread,That is the way it will always be.I was once told in the early days of this thread when i got a couple of good things correct that Guest put up.That there was no way i could unravel the methods without the form books,To which at the time i wholehearedly disagreed.But that person was right but i would never have known if i hadn't have purchased the form books.I'm sorry if you feel i'm some kind of con man or whatever,But it is your frustration in not being able to understand the methods that brings the scepticism and doubt.Sorry mate but it happens all the time on every vdw board.

quote:

---

Originally posted by investor:
Seanrua
,But it is your frustration in not being able to understand the methods that brings the scepticism and doubt.Sorry mate but it happens all the time on every vdw board.

---

Investor
It is the fact that nobody can demonstrate VDW methodology in real time that brings the Scepticism and doubt

I havent seen anybody since 1978 that can prove the method by results,
Before the race
Not even VDW

Investor,

thats the best one for 120 pages. LOL.

Got to get up early to catch you out.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pkboy,

quote:

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Originally posted by Seanrua:
I'm starting to think that we are victims of the " never ending saga" based on something like " Dick Barton- special agent" and the Archers.

---

It's almost sacrilage to mention DB in the same breath as the Archers. I've never forgiven A for usurping DB!

Are race courses allowed to pay trainers appearance money?
A big name like Best Mate running certainly increases the gate.

Thanks for your reply, Investor.

My understanding of English may not be the best, but if understanding VDW depends on buying some expensive,old form books and re-learning the English language so that what is written doesn't really mean what is written, but, has to be "de-coded" by using these form books or by looking out for capital letters that could be unscrambled by Carol Vordeman to spell out the winner in the race but not of the race etc etc,

I don't think I'll be bothering my arse with it.

Investor
The whole future of VDW Methodology rests on your shoulders. Without you pre-race selections, no one will ever believe a word of it again. Can you shoulder the responsibility?

General
How many have read the pamphlets? If someone has not read them, then how can someone judge the method? Or even claim to have an informed opinion of the method for that matter? I am not talking about the form books... I am talking about the original letters reproduced by Tony Peach.

Investor knows his VDWonions. He is constantly ridiculed, yet he comes back to the board again and again. Personally, if I took 5% of the stick he takes, I'd be off.

I come on to this board to learn. And not just about VDWology. I am very grateful to JIB for explaining OR. To Swish for taking the trouble to help me with speed figures. To Ectoo and JIB, with their ideas on the workings of trainers. To Ftse100 for his ideas on Systems. To Lee, Mtoto, PKBoy and Investor on comments made about VDW.

There is more to racing than VDW. There is so much to learn about racing apart from the VDW method. e.g. Inside information (with the right information). Trainer intent. How to get served in a hospitality tent at Newmarket, etc...

People claim that no one is successfully pre-posting VDW selections. And they are right. As I have pointed out several times, nobody is able to that (imo) as the VDWers can't even agree what a VDW selection is. But people can post selections that they have made using their understanding of VDW’s methods, as Seanrua has attempted. And as I have attempted.

As I wrote earlier, since November 2nd, BlackCat has placed 44 bets and has had 22 winners, (pre-race posted on RSUK btw). These bets were made using his understanding of the method. And he does not claim to be an expert in the dark art either. Stroll on. If he can get that strike rate using those little pamphlets, what could some of you achieve, who are clearly far more intelligent and knowledgeable about racing.

But it seems to me that baiting Investor, yet again, is more fun for some. (Yawn). Epi wants to discuss a no hoper in a non-event as a VDW selection. I would rather discuss Ollie Magern’s win on Boxing Day. (No offence intended Epi, but that is my honest view).

I sit and smile. Mr. Van der Wheil was right. "Temperament bedevils most of the punters".

Whatever your racing future holds for you, I do sincerely wish you success in 2005.

BlackCat

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat,

PKBOY
Not quite sure what you mean,But i hope you put a bit more money in the wheelbarrow.

I said in my post above that I come to this board to learn. Which is true. But I also come here to share what I have learned. Which I do try to do as the opportunity occurs.

And if the Van der Wheil method doesn't work for you, fine. Move on dude, get over it. But please don't try to rob others of possible success. I can say with hand on heart that I have found it to work as I use it.

As I posted yesterday, this is my first (proper) profitable year - thanks to the Van der Wheil method.

And Boozer. Pre-race posted success too... am I really the first!

Hi Seanrua
It is a pity you have reacted towards Investor in the way you have. From what I have read, Investor has always tried to help you, and in that light, I think your recent posts to him have been harsh.
BlackCat

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat,

Investor,

I agree that Silver Birch was a VDW FORM HORSE with a higher ability rating than Chives, another VDW FORM HORSE.

I also took the view that SB was a progressive type in receipt of 13 lbs from Chives but when looking at the form of both horses I took the view that Chives had acheived more to date and was the classier of the 2 and if I had played on the race I would have backed Chives taking the view that he could concede the weight and I would have been wrong.

In hindsight there were several options here namely,

1) a book on them both

2) a win bet on SB and a place bet on Chives

3) a win bet on the one considered best

4) leave the race alone.

I thankfully chose the latter and went to watch S****horpe firing blanks against a Notts County side with only one aim, not to get beat.

Silver Birch has clearly marked his card again here and will no doubt go on your list of horses to follow.

VDW , I believe said that weight does matter when the opposition is good enough to benefit from receiving it. Today looked another case to support that statement ?

ALL

Assuming Best Mate doesn't run again before Cheltenham how do we view todays defeat ? A downturn in form and therefore not a form horse ?

Seanrua
You have just said what a majority have done in the past."i can't be bothered to arse with it"This is what happens.People won't take it that one step further,Which is of course there prerogative.So on that note why should posters expect those that have put in the effort and time and money to give it on a plate.I must differ because i have enjoyed the last 3+ years unravelling this puzzle,But believe me the benefits are far greater than the deficits.I remember Guest once saying that it would be "the best investment i'll ever make " and boy was he right.

Black cat
I hope that isn't your departing post,In time you too will have something to offer this thread,So hang on in there buddy.I give as much shit as i take so it isn't all one sided.

Hi Investor

I see what you mean... so I've edited the above - didn't mean it to come out quite like that! Whoops.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackCat,

Determined
In hindsight.A book would have been the better option.But vdw gave 2 sets of ratings.Silver Birch was 90 on the second set as i see them and was the class/form horse.Which of course we support when everything is in it's favour.I got the 9/2 before they steamed into it,I thought Ruby Walsh gave the horse a great ride and when coming over the last.The money was in the bank.

Best mate still has to come into the reckoning imo Along with Kingscliff,Beef or salmon and of course Kicking king,They are the horses i will be keeping my eyes on.K.K is looking dangerous but we'll know nearer the day.

Investor

You dont see best mates form as a dowturn then?

Boozer
It looks that way,But wev'e got to remember that this horse has won 3 gold cups.His run has to end someday and it may well be this year.Remember what vdw said about Pegwell bay, "Had the ground been heavy i wouldn't have wagered on him".we'll see.