Jib
Come off it mate,Moors myth was running in a 3yold maiden for goodness sake.I can't see any corrib eclipses in that race.

You say i'm guilty of aftertiming.The only reason i made comment lat time was because you said something along the lines of La persiana's race wasn't a good advert for the consistent horses,La persiana wasn't a formhorse but Polar jem was.Pushkin wasn't a form horse.Let me put it to you this way are you telling me that you would sooner back a horse that has averaged 20 grand a race and goes down b 17 lgs to a horse that has averaged 4 grand a race in preference to an animal that has run to within 5 lgs of a horse that has averaged 60 grand a race.The Prince i can fully agree with,It had nothing to beat,Where as pushkin was never going to beat Corrib Eclipse.I may well join the forum entirely i don't know yet.But you keep slagging these consistent horses off and i'll put you straight.

Take up my offer john,There yours for nothing,And if you do be prepared to eat a massive amount of humble pie,Comon matwhat are you affraid of.

more important things to worry about than form.

HA HA HA .............form........ we'll be able to read yours in a bit.LOL.

Investor,

Once again no thanks, I d prefer you to use the postage on full membership!

My own experiences and studies over many years clearly show that 'form' other than the exceptions I mentioned above is a waste of time.

Consistency as understood by form figs is a total waste of time.

However good performances of the type of form I pay attention to, are a form of consistency if the conditions are similar and is something I very much believe in.

Sire stats are nothing more than the consistency records of a sires progeny at certain conditions. And as you know I believe very much in sire stats.

But above all a horse has to be placed to win and that is something a punter has to try and find. If you do fully join up you will see that the systems that are long term winners (I think they are now into three fig pts profits) run by MokeG and Tan have in common horses whose form figs are far nearer to 000 than 111.

As far as I can see they are looking at horses who have returned to old winning marks and who are repeating the conditions (more or less).

Currrently no one has a winning thread based on good recent form, if you join up you can show us how to do it.

Nysean 220N looks as if it could have been prepared for this. Of the three sons of Saddlers Wells it looks the most likely to well at a good price.

Yes, JIB, you could well be right about Nysaen, and apart from his recent form figures I don't suppose the VDWers would be too dismissive of this selection.

I've looked and looked. My selection is Compton Bolter to beat Imperial Dancer, but with Fallon and Dettori going head to head we may get a "skewed" result.

Jib
Good luck with Nysean (if you are backing it ) the question i would be asking myself about that particular horse is what has it beat in comparison to Percussionist(non runner) and Imperial Dancer,And i have come to the conclusion "not a lot" i won't be playing in the race but the very prescence of imperial dancer and compton bolter ( which won the race last year) for that matter would deter me from backing Nysean.But i sincerely wish you the best of luck.

The table didn't post

www.sireform.com

The current 5.2/1 for one of 3 places on BF is a vv good bet

Jib
Is B.F running tomorrow,There are plenty of races where other letters in the alphabet proceed the B,But not an F

Investor,

Not sure if your tongue was in your cheek there, but just in case.

BF - Betfair. The price was for Nysean.

NFP,

I think even Investor will agree that he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Jib
Sorry mate,I thought you were being a bit cryptic or something,There is a B.F ( beaten favourite) in that race which is of course Westmoreland road which is also 5.2/1 on betfair,my apologies.

Sean,

Last year all I remenber was Butlers' Comptons popping in all over the place and at all prices. But so far hes had a lousy year and cant seem to get his horses right.

(After one of these posts the bloody things usually scoot in!)

Investor,

Why are you spending so much time worrying what the boorish bigot JIB thinks? All you are doing is playing to his enormous ego. It gives him a platform to spout his rubbish, and who knows some may even be gullible to believe it.

Perhaps he would like to explain why the organ grinder M Pipe thought if Maximise was so well in he told the owner not to back it? Add to this he also entered another 4/5 horses in the same race. This owner wasn't some little nobody he is the top owner in the stable. Is it just possible Mr Pipe had know idea the horse would win?
JIB was plain lucky on this occasion, yes we all need luck now and then, but to use it as an example of how clever you think you are is a little sad.

We can all find races that have been won by inconsistent horses, does that prove consistent ones can't/don't win? Suppose it may to a few fools but there you go. Year after year many of the top races, and this does include handicaps are won by consistent horse. How does he explain that? Does he even know, as he doesn't even look at the form book?

It doesn't matter what grand ideas the trainer has, or how the horses is place before the race. If it isn't good enough it CAN'T win. How do WE know if it is good enough, by reading the form book?

I have never said the reason to back a horse is because it is consistent. There is a difference, in not backing a horse unless it is consistent.

If I was a member of TC's club I could post many examples of consistent horses (with the same profile) that win. Suppose it's different for JIB though

Anyway enough of that. As you seem to be in the mood for posting can I ask you a question?............

posted September 12, 2004 02:17 PM
3.05 Good Gp3 3yo+ 29,000

The most likely winner for me in this one is MUQBIL,A highly progressive type that is open to further improvement.Again this is the type that i usually support.Has all the ticks in the rght boxes.Good consistent form,Infact he posseses all of the attributes given in vdw's equation.He has an ab rating of 123 but has shown form in much higher class,Disposing of Vespose which has an ab rating of 674 and was seen lto in the arlington million finishing last.Muqbil was again stepped up in class lto but showed improvement in the race and today dropped.Salselon is clearly a danger but hasn't shown a great deal above a mile.I personally feel that Muqbil is a vdw type but would have been rejected on price,Having said that 2/1 5/2 would be acceptable for me.

What happened to change your mind when you later said his form wasn't good enough? Was it just the fact he was beaten, or because Barney said he wasn't a form horse. If it was because of Barney's statement do you also agree he wasn't a form horse? I have to say I think he was a form horse that failed on capability/probability.

No doubt an explanation of our mistakes will now appear!

Jib
Unlucky mate,But don't mis judge the importance of class.It's a big factor.

Mtoto
I made a big mistake with that race my friend,it wasn't until afterwards that i realised.Muqbil went down to Mister Monet in the race previous to sunday.This was clearly a downturn in form.If youv'e been looking at my posts just lately think about the class of horse element.

Jib
Just to re-iterate,2 of the 3 big races have been won by a horse in the first 3 cons

Sights on gold 121
eistedfod 311

They do win regularly my friend (just like vdw said they did all those many moons ago ) wether you agree or not thare frequent visitors to the winners enclosure.

Mtoto,

You can find hundreds of winners in the formbook who had good form figs. Just as I can find hundreds who didnt.

For the last year I have been posting the ones with the bad form figs before the off and made continuous profit.

For that effort all you seem to do is give me senseless unprovoked abuse. If I am wrong why dont you prove it, and do what I do? I can assure you that if you are successful I am gentleman enough not to say you have just been lucky.