try this link

It will save you an awful lot of money in the long run !

http://www.browzers.co.uk/

TC

What a good observation !

Put anotherway -

a Donkey won`t beat a "CLASS" horse - even if you put a "rocket" up its A*se !

But Weight Will eventualy Stop a Train !


TC


***

Question ?


How much weight do you need to put into Steve Redgrave`s Boat - in order for you to beat him on the Park Lake !!

[This message was edited by Tuppenycat on January 03, 2003 at 08:41 PM.]

or


for the lads in the olympics, who finished second, to beat them.

they wont need to recieve as much weight as you TC

fair comment !

But more than they expected I thnk !

and would VDW play ?

New Question -

? 2.20 Haydock

any system / method !

???

TC



[This message was edited by Tuppenycat on January 03, 2003 at 09:36 PM.]

[This message was edited by Tuppenycat on January 03, 2003 at 09:37 PM.]

I would have thought that you would be into the key race aspects.

After all, with OR, the handicapper thinks that all races are "key races" and fiddles up and down on an almost daily basis.

Surely its common sense to only consider the horses in the race under inspection and only "fiddle" with those.

Most horses have usually met, or have a close form line at one point or another. There may appear, to some, to be an infinate supply of horses for races, but it seems to me that its only a merry go round.

I would have thought that was right up your street, and not nonsense at all.

Barney,

Does this mean you agree with all of what was written? Maybe you could give a couple of examples because I'm not sure how the KEY races come into it, unless you are talking about the c/form horse.

As you rightly state I have little trouble with having a key race, but the OR is only part of the formula. The other element is a fact that seldom moves. I thought one of the reasons I am continually being told I am wrong was because I don't use the ability rating. This is based on the winning record of the horse, (not a key race), neither is the consistency rating.

Out of all the factors mentioned in the article the KEY race is the part I have the least problem with. It's the implication that VDW selections always carry less weight when they win. Week after week I see good selections passed over because 'they can't carry the weight'. The other statement that most horses are a good bet when raised in class, is the nonsense. I think the article I posted by VDW shows he disagrees.

Talking of statements from VDW, I keep wondering why this one was ignored.

FORM and CLASS. Form is what they did, and class is the level at which it was achieved. Therefore, when looking at the relative merits of one horse against another, these two elements class and form must be equated along with the other aspects such as DISTANCE, GOING, TRACK, ETC. Whatever the form and class, a long-striding galloping horse is almost bound to come unstuck on a sharp track.

Look forward to your reply, or anyone else's thoughts on the article.

Be Lucky

Is it the James Willoughby article in the RFU you need scanning? Ive got a scanner and can also OCR the article.

-----------------------------
Play long you never change the stakes the house takes you
Unless,when that perfect hand comes along you bet big and then you take the house.

LOKM., Delboy has v kindly posted it on the Gummy portal front page, and its v interesting.

I have not read the article, so cannot comment on it.

The comment you mention by VDW is not ignored, not by me at any rate. It is one way of hiding real form, I think that is the point.

If weight doesnt matter, and I know this is a very selective example, cast your mind back to the ONC and sun bird.

If that race was run tommorrow, I suspect that many on here would be giving that horse far more consideration Now than they did back then.

[This message was edited by Barney on January 04, 2003 at 07:27 AM.]

soory guys, but its still freezing cold here and my front lawn is like concrete.

There are still no clouds in the sky.

it will be off.

Iwould agree entirely. IMO the factors you mention are much more important to the result of a race than weight is.

how you do that?

change your username from Barney to Vanman?

this thread is confusing enuff without people changing their ID.



[This message was edited by IMP on January 04, 2003 at 11:50 AM.]

More importantly to me, is how does someone else do it when I am golfing.

Playing golf in the frost,Your nearly as stupid as i used to be,What do you play off by the way.

I have a considerable respect for your views as expressed on this board and I'm abashed that you felt my address to Mister Ed was inappropriate, nevertheless I stand by it and I reserve the right to use the style of language that I feel best expresses my feelings.

I spy with my 4 eyes.

LOKM.

Thanks for your kind offer.

Delboy

You are a sport, I took a couple of looks at it and decided it would take too long. How it is posted, I would like to think it will stimulate some discussion. Perhaps it will change a few minds that can't see weight MAY not be the great leveller so many think. I think far to many look at the results, and don't look beyond the weight carried. So and so is giving a stone, and that is the reason for the defeat. Missing facts like the going is wrong, the course doesn't suit , etc.

Barney.

I am very pleased you take the other factors into account. May I ask does this change your mind, or at least put a little doubt about BL being out of form? I also wonder if this was the reason for BHL, being out of form (the sharp track against a horse proven on it). Mr e d has gone very quite, wonder what reason he gives for BHL being out of form? It would be nice to hear.

Be Lucky

Two donkeys have equal ability & have 1m to travel, im on donkey one carrying 12st dead , you are on donkey two with 13st, dont tell me weight doesn`t count!.Given the conditions lol.

both are proven over the distance and in the class remember lol.

and if one had been training for months with 18 stone on its back(moi) and the other had willie carson on for the last two months,which would find it easier?

mtoto,

I dont know how you can say that, I am Mr suspicious.